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Thursday, February 18, 2016 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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I'm fairly new to Objectivism and agree with the main axioms: existence, identity and consciousness, but it would seem these axioms need something preceding them. For something to exist, there would need to be a material "thing" to exist, be identified or be conscious of.  One might state than an idea is a thing that is not material, but the idea has to come from some mind, and given Objectivism's denial of the mind/body dichotomy, we're talking about a brain- a physical object.

 

So my question is, where did the physical objects the exist originate from?



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 5:48amSanction this postReply
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Beware of the fallacy of infinite regress that leads to absurdities such as Creationism and Intelligent Design.

 

Objectivism leaves questions of cosmogony or cosmic origins to epistemology rather than metaphysics.

 

You must first accept as axiomatic that existence exists, that it has a specific nature and no other, and that you are aware of these facts.

 

Questions of origins are secondary.

 

All that said, the idea of origins implies that the universe could not be eternal, a faulty assumption.



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 8:48amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for answering this.

 

Origins may be secondary, but one cannot simply ignore them.    I accept the Objectivist axioms of primacy of existence, etc.  

 

So, are you saying the universe is eternal?  To me, that makes no sense.  Recent and current cosmology indicates the universe had a beginning. 

 

BTW, wherer are you located in FL?  I'm in Melbourne Beach.

 

(Edited by Mike Masztal on 2/19, 12:22pm)



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 9:11amSanction this postReply
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I live in Cocoa and we have our next Ayn Rand Meetup this Saturday, February 20, at 6 PM at Barnes and Noble Booksellers in Merritt Island.

 

Please register at Meetup and join us!

 

Regarding origins, as I said, that is a job for epistemology in the form of science.



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 10:15amSanction this postReply
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I would say that there is a key difference between talking about a specific thing, no matter how extensive it is, like "the universe" as compared to talking about "existence" which would include "the universe" and, quite simply, everything.  This would seem to be both metaphysics and epistemology (but more epistemological).

 

For almost anything we can think of, it makes sense to ask about its origin.  Where did you come from?  What created this? etc.  And that can predispose us to think that this is a property to be found of all things.   But, consider a "thing" that is actually a category, like "mammals."  If we ask where mammals come from, we will need to find a causal category that matches 'mammals.'  It has to be a cause that works to explain humans, zebras, chimpanzees, etc.  In other words, the cause must be of such a nature, epistemologically, as to match the effect we are imputing to it.

 

We might say that the universe came from the big bang, but there has to have been something that existed prior to an effect for any causal explanation to work.  (Remember Luke's warning to avoid the infinite regress).  Now, if, instead of "the universe," we say, "existence" and mean by that "all that has ever existed," we have included whatever caused the big bang.  We have, by the nature of the concepts, arrived at the point where we have to say that existence has always existed, and that existence cannot be made out of non-existence.

 

If one were to say that it makes no sense for existence to be seen as eternal, that would be equivalent to saying that something could spring into existence from non-existence and clearly with no cause since a cause has to be about something that exists so as to be able to cause something to happen. 

 

I find it easier to accept that existence has always existed, and that there never was a time when nothing existed, then to accept an idea that could violate the very nature of causality and hold that anything could spring into being with no precursor whatsoever.  And it appears to me that the confusion most often arises out of a conflation of astronomy's understanding of the 'universe' with the philosophical understanding of 'existence.'



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 12:19pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Luke:  Thanks ffor the invite. I'll be there this Sat @6PM.  I saw what was on the schedule and was pleased to see the topic. I read Allison's book a couple years and was able to find it in my strewn about library.  See you Saturday.



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 1:21pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the input Steve.

 

Luke:  I'll see you tomorrow @6 at B&N.  I looked at the topic and just happen to have Allison's book which I read a couple years ago.



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 3:14pmSanction this postReply
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I will be late but look for the table of old white guys discussing the book!



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Friday, February 19, 2016 - 3:45pmSanction this postReply
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At 61, I guess I qualify as an old white guy.



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Post 9

Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Mike, the observable universe has a beginning via the big bang theory...  but all that is is the beginning time frame of when everything we see now may have developed, and that given what we see now and our equations we can't predict anything that happened/ was prior.

 

For example, before the big bang there may have been a big crunch, a looping cyclical change in the density of space.  The big bang theory does not deny conservation of momentum & energy.



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Post 10

Sunday, March 6, 2016 - 11:33amSanction this postReply
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As Andrew Bernstein said in a debate with Dinesh D'Souza, for there to be an explosion (i.e., the Big Bang), there has to be something to explode! ;-)  Nihilo ex nihilo -- from nothing comes nothing. 



Post 11

Wednesday, March 30, 2016 - 3:01amSanction this postReply
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Mike,

 

To say that at no time was there nothing at all or that at no time was there no time, one is not also saying the duration of the existence of existence extends infinitely into the past. The boundary of the past could be finite, and at the first, the universe could have it's present mass-energy (as in classical GR) and be ticking time, yet since it was the first of time, there would be no "before" that first, and it would not be sensible to talk of a "becoming" from a "before" the first. Philosophy does not need to prejudge the physics of whether the universe of mass-energy and its spacetime extend into an infinite or finite past. That can be left to modern physics to settle. Philosophy should only say there was no time at which there was nothing.



Post 12

Thursday, April 7, 2016 - 3:17pmSanction this postReply
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The Universe was created from nothing in the sense that the quantum vaccuum is not an observed thing-ness. Hence the title of Krauss' book, "A Universe from Nothing".

 

What we do know is that the QV contains enough energy to coalesce and form a heat gradent (Linde) and thereby begin the proceess of Guth Inflation  (not a 'big Bang, btw).



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