RoR: Forum

Rebirth of Reason

Forum : Books : We the Living

We the Living by Ayn Rand

This is my favorite Ayn Rand novel. Not as overtly philosophical nor as monumental in scope as her later works, strictly as a novel qua novel, it excels those later works. And compared to the work of other authors, it is monumental. Rand tells us a love story set against the background of communist Russia in the 1920's. In part two, chapter 8, s... (See the whole review)

(Added by Bob Palin on 8/12/2004, 6:49pm)

Discuss this Book (16 messages)

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 12:16pm

I grabbed a copy of We The Living a few weeks ago and still have a question or two.

One: Can anyone explain to me why Kira loved Leo even after Andrei?
Two: Why after knowing, and apparently loving, Andrei she chose to go back to Leo?

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 12:37pm

First Infatuation Trumps Grudging Respect?

I've been in three monogamous relations with none ending acrimoniously. My current boyfriend of 13 years knows that I would go back to my prior boyfriend who was murdered if I could. I would consider getting back together with my first girlfriend if my current boyfriend weren't around, but I think and hope she might have been better off in another relationship. We remained friends for a decade after we split, but she moved to the West Coast in 2000 and we haven't spoken since.

I am curious how many very good long-term relationships you have had, and if they have ended well? In Kira's case, the only hint is that she was infatuated with Leo immediately, while she had to fall for Andrei after some time. I tend to believe in loyalty to a partner. I always found Dagny's leaving Rearden for Galt improbable - or at least I wouldn't do it if I really loved Rearden and wasn't just having an affair with a good friend. Galt was too much of a non-entity for me since he only appears openly in the end of the book. He is more of a faceless disembodied voice than a flesh and blood man. Rand was thinking of him the whole time she wrote the book, so to her he was real. But as readers, he was kept a surprise and an anti-climax so far as I'm concerned.

There are also other factors. Leo may have smelled better. The sex may have been better. She most likely saw Andrei as tragically compromised. She had the boat-flight in common with Leo. Since the book is just a book, all this is speculation. The only way to answer the question in the real world is to live it out.

Ted Keer

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 12:52pm

I've had only two very serious relationships in my short life. My first wife and I didn't get along and all and I assume she is glad to be rid of me. I wouldn't exchange wife two for wife one in a million years. That part of my life seems to anger me mostly.

I felt the same way about Dagny and Rearden. While I was very excited to lean of Galt I was a little surprised that she would jettison Rearden. I guess, though, he was still married and Galt was the 'better' man.

Now let me ask you this: Was Kira's affair with Andrei moral?

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 1:03pm

Airtight

There are two major types of affairs, flings that your lover doesn't find out about, and affairs that end the marriage. This case was unusual because she was using Andrei before she came to love him. But Kira didn't go into it with any pretenses, and Andrei also knew she was involved. Kira should have expected the possibility that Leo might leave her. Andrei should have expected the same. I think Kira was taking a calculated risk for which she was willing to suffer the consequences. My motto is, "If it's worth the time, commit the crime." I think she had reasonable cause to believe that she was doing the best possible under the circumstances.

Also, keep in mind that the working title was Airtight and the theme was the impossibility of individual happiness under a dictatorship. Rand wrote the book so that none would end up perfectly happy.

Ted Keer

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 1:09pm

So, is it possible that Leo just couldn't handle living life in Soviet Russia?

I disagree with you about Andrei knowing Kira was in a relationship. I seem to remember that he was very shocked when he found out that she and Leo were an actual item.

As for having affairs I will say this, I had an affair, two actually, while I was married to my first wife. I was very glad she found out about the second, it set me free. As for the first, I would be mortified if she ever knew, even now.
(Edited by Steve on 9/14, 1:32pm)

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 1:15pm

BTW, If you haven't seen the movie, it is worth obtaining at all costs. The title is Noi Vivi (also under We the Living) staring a young Alida Valli as well as Rossano Brazzi, both of whom had long film careers in Europe and the US. This is one of the best movies ever made and is much better than the cramped The Fountainhead production.

Ted Keer

Here is pictured Valli with Joseph Cotton in 1949's The Third Man.

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 1:25pm

That photo reminds me of a chat I had the other day with a friend. We were talking of beautiful women and I admitted that there are not many around now, as far as I am concerned. I want to see more women like that.

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 2:01pm

Then I command you to immediately rent Gilda, The Lady from Shanghai, The Third Man, and the 1939's Hunchback of Notre Dame
with

Hayworth, Valli, O'Hara - and none of the pictures does the women justice in live motion.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/14, 2:33pm)

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 2:04pm

I'll never forget Jane Russell from The Outlaw. God, I love her hair.

That Photo of Rita Hayworth....I can't even describe what I like about it. Thats why I like sculpture, especially of human figures.
(Edited by Steve on 9/14, 2:09pm)

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 2:42pm

Romeo is Bleeding

I think Lena Olin is one of the most beautiful of women, again much more sensual live than in still. In "Romeo is Bleeding" she plays a one-armed Russian Mafia Assassin against Gary Oldman as a corrupt NYC cop in one of the most violent yet sensual femme fatale roles ever acted. I recommend everyone rent that movie. The movie is brutal, but if you can stomach it, most worth watching.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/14, 2:55pm)

Friday, September 14, 2007 - 2:48pm

Hayworth's high cheek bones, strong jaw line, full lips, perfect symmetry, trademark hair and "fertility indicators" as well as her athletic ability and wonderful voice all make her the sex goddess.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/14, 2:51pm)

Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 3:05pm

Speaking of the Divas, Steve, check out these upcoming airings of Hayworth and others. Hayworth will also be on TCM this Friday in Gilda.

Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 7:12pm

Unfortunately, I'll be on the road.

Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 8:35pm

Thought that was a possibility, but if you have cable you should consider getting a DVR.

Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 10:20pm

Or, instead of a DVR, I could get a job where I'm home more. I thought driving a truck would be good for me because I was tired of dealing with people. I've found that being alone, totally alone, is not as romantic as I assumed.

Thinking is one thing I have plenty of time for now, however I miss reading and desperately miss writing. Those were my two emotional outlets. Now I find myself crying, yes crying, over commercials and silly love songs playing on the radio.

And now I'm leaving again for another few weeks...

Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 10:26am

"crying, over commercials and silly love songs playing on the radio."

What's wrong with that? I'd like to know...

Even if you settle down you'll still want a DVR.

Crying over good things is a blessing, the chances it's a brain tumor are negligible. Most people don't cry over silly love songs because they committed psychological suicide in high school.

Ted