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Post 0

Friday, October 3 - 12:43pmSanction this postReply
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This is sad beyond belief. It makes it clear that NO amount of political change will ever secure our freedom if it does not include taking the control of money and the size of the budget away from politicians. No administration and no legislative body should be able borrow or print or tax beyond pre-set limits that they can NOT change.

In practical terms it will probably have two effects. First, it is a political precedent that will make bailouts the new congressional business. They will find ways to use this as the mechanism for bailing out other things, and if it won't stretch, they'll pass a new bailout. And they won't forget the stunning power of scaring people with the threat of a depression - from now on the collapse of the market is seen as their ally in reaching into the treasury.

Second, it sets the economic stage. As the monies flow from the treasury into the marketplace to the financiers, the lenders, and the other pork eaters, it will prevent the liquidation of bad assets, the dissolving of incompetent organizations and it will prevent the healthy correction that is long overdue. This means we will see stronger attempts on the part of the economy to rid itself of these toxic transactions - I expect a pattern of stronger and stronger attempts at correction and they are likely to arrive at shorter intervals and each one calling for more drastic interventions.

There is some limit to how much debt can be loaded up on that market place for Treasury bills, notes and bonds. As we get closer to it, the interest rates that will have to be paid will go higher to get the debt sold. I remember a time in the past, about the early eighties, where 30 year treasury bonds paid 14%. Recalculate the cost of our new level of national debt with a rate like that - all of a sudden the war in Iraq will look cheap at 10 billion a month. There are no good things down that road - it leads to hyperinflation.
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The democrats and liberals acted true to their nature. They created the problem. From FDR's creation of Fannie Mae in 1938 all the way to present mess. Then they blame the crisis on free enterprise, who was not even in the room. Then they propose a solution that isn't a solution and instead will make things worse and move us so much closer to complete statism.

The republicans and conservatives acted true to their nature. They argued, squabbled, squawked and whined... and then they said, "Me too," grabbed a handful of pork and passed this bill, just like they have for all of the others since 1938 and before.



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Post 1

Friday, October 3 - 1:24pmSanction this postReply
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The state of California just asked the Fed for 7 billion dollars as a bailout - they can't find any buyers for their short term debt (foreshadowing what will happen to the fed down the road).

It appears that there will only be 4 categories of entities that can't or won't become bailout recipients:
- Taxpayers, as such,
- the country as whole,
- those who are too moral and productive,
- everyone who is too late to get in line, because it will all disappear soon.



(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 10/03, 2:07pm)




Post 2

Friday, October 3 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
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The plan would grant the Secretary of the Treasury unprecedented power to spend,[26] proofing his or her actions against congressional or judicial review. Section 8 of the Paulson proposal states: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."[19]
 
This proves that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans (the ones who control all presidential debates). That they're both socialists in heart and mind (but Republicans just have to pretend to value freedom moreso than Democrats). 

I wonder what Rand's reaction would be.

Ed
 
 




Post 3

Friday, October 3 - 1:50pmSanction this postReply
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Ed - that paragraph seems impossible to me - how could that be passed?  Why would the congress cede power to the treasury?

Also, just because something is passed that can't be judicially reviewed does not mean that it cannot be - the act could be declared unconstitutional.

It is very scary sounding.




Post 4

Friday, October 3 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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The plan would grant the Secretary of the Treasury unprecedented power to spend,[26] proofing his or her actions against congressional or judicial review. Section 8 of the Paulson proposal states: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."[19]
 
I'm pretty sure there was some oversight of Treasury Dept. actions put into the final bill.




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Post 5

Friday, October 3 - 3:02pmSanction this postReply
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In four month's time it will be Obama's appointee who will inherit the dictator's sword forged for him by George Bush, one of the worst presidents in our history.
(Edited by Ed Hudgins on 10/03, 9:10pm)

(Edited by Ed Hudgins on 10/03, 9:11pm)




Post 6

Friday, October 3 - 3:35pmSanction this postReply
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A little more light-hearted

All I ask is that you get through the first two minutes of this guy (I watched all 24). There's something near minute-mark 1:30 that is relevant.

Ed




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Post 7

Friday, October 3 - 3:59pmSanction this postReply
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The Empty Men

John McCain, in not opposing this abomination, has conceded the election to our very own Hugo Chavez.

George Bush is now officially the second worst president ever, with only Woodrow Wilson, who created the Fed, and who killed 116,000 Americans in WWI outranking him.

Does McCain expect that an Al Qaida attack will get him elected? I think it is more likely that he thinks his "sacrifice" of "loosing the election to win the buyout" will earn him a place in history. Yes. But as what? The biggest traitor or fool ever?

I look forward to seeing Barack Obama have Hugo Chavez over for dinner. Maybe disco, bell bottoms, and Studio 54 will come back in style.




Post 8

Friday, October 3 - 6:04pmSanction this postReply
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If it is unconstitutional, why not someone take it to court?




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Post 9

Friday, October 3 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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There can be no longer be any pretense that America is a capitalist society. Everyone and everything that is needy and pitiful will be taken care of (not).

Funeral March (Chopin)

Sam




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Post 10

Saturday, October 4 - 4:35amSanction this postReply
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism

"Robber barons" is not a myth. They dominate Congress and the executive branch. 




Post 11

Saturday, October 4 - 10:42amSanction this postReply
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And the American "ought" - "is" gap continues to widen...



Post 12

Monday, October 6 - 8:38amSanction this postReply
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Canada is starting to look pretty good guys.

Tyson




Post 13

Monday, October 6 - 9:08pmSanction this postReply
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Tyson:

Well, the $CA has dropped out of bed lately. From eleven months ago it has gone from $1.085 to $0.903. But I suppose that'd be good news for someone moving to Canada with their US finances.

Sam




Post 14

Monday, October 6 - 10:06pmSanction this postReply
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Sam,

But you'd spend in all on fuel oil in the Winter. Brrrrrr.

jt in sunny Florida



Post 15

Tuesday, October 7 - 9:44pmSanction this postReply
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It's too bad to see that the otherwise insightful Thunderf00t blames "lack of regulation" for the current mess.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SMFt7tRq-Ps

He should stick to his strength- debunking creationists.


(Edited by Tyson Russell on 10/07, 9:45pm)

(Edited by Tyson Russell on 10/08, 12:49pm)




Post 16

Wednesday, October 8 - 12:51pmSanction this postReply
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After a day, I realized I forgot to insert the link to the Thunderf00t video.



Post 17

Tuesday, October 14 - 4:24amSanction this postReply
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Regarding the original bailout vote, which included this:

The plan would grant the Secretary of the Treasury unprecedented power to spend,[26] proofing his or her actions against congressional or judicial review. Section 8 of the Paulson proposal states: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."[19]
 
Is there a way to get a list of all of the members of Congress who voted for it?

Ed




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Post 18

Tuesday, October 14 - 5:18amSanction this postReply
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Is there a way to get a list of all of the members of Congress who voted for it?
 Yes. Use note 2 on the same page you did for the House of Representatives. For the Senate, go here.




Post 19

Tuesday, October 14 - 7:39amSanction this postReply
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While this clause does make Paulsen look more and more like Mr. Thompson, does anyone think this was intended to prevent (fat chance) or at least limit political influence over spending of the funds?

jt



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