RoR: Forum

Post 0

Monday, September 29 - 11:51am

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I've been following this all morning with fascination and really didn't believe that it wouldn't pass. While I am generally benevolent toward my fellow citizens I applaud the defeat. A huge and immediate drop in the market is the only thing that will shock and traumatize the socialists' minds enough to re-wire their brains and get them to realize that social programs must be paid for and not just financed out of blue air with the printing of money.

Sam

Post 1

Monday, September 29 - 12:26pm

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Gott sei dank!

Post 2

Monday, September 29 - 1:19pm

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Agreed. This is great news. However, I'm afraid that they will eventually pass something.

Post 3

Monday, September 29 - 2:06pm

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But here's the thing...
Does anyone have any FACTS?
All we have is news stories.

www.house.gov goes not respond.

I tried Thomas, the Library of Congress system, www.thomas.gov and found only
Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
which had nothing in it that seemed like the words I was reading on CNN.com

Does this bill have a number?

Just asking, because, you know, maybe I just couldn't find it...

Aside from the actual text, I would like to see the votes on this, who voted against, for instance would be interesting.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 9/29, 2:06pm)

Post 4

Monday, September 29 - 2:12pm

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It's good news, but not because it's going to change any socialists' minds. At best, the longer this takes the weaker the legislation will become and the more time the truth will have to get out. This has been a great opportunity for free-marketeers to be heard, and everybody except Franklin Raines and Barney Frank will be better off for that.

The standard high-school and college history books tell us that the Renaissance and the Reformation couldn't have happened without the invention of printing to break the church's information monopoly. Likewise, the demise of socialism couldn't have happened without cable and the internet to break the old-media oligopoly.

Post 5

Monday, September 29 - 2:57pm

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This link breaks down the votes for this bill by state and district:

Vote by district

Post 6

Monday, September 29 - 3:04pm

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Lets hope it didn't get revived. As much as it seems the world market is in 'crisis', I have to disagree with their view as I live in a city in which such fluctuations are significant to our local economy. Guess what? The aircraft companies here are not whispering of layoffs nor of any orders getting cut off either. Things are chugging along and the world for Wichita has yet to end. Maybe it'll end for some idiotic financial sector dumb-dumbs, but for us here we're fine, just don't expect us folks to pay out of our pockets just because some other sector of the economy has gone belly up.

Post 7

Monday, September 29 - 3:10pm

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McCain is an idiot. The Republicans had an opportunity, if they really believe in free markets, to add some potent restrictions for their support:

within a period of three years:

1. disband/eradicate the Fed. It has been demonstrated that the greatest intentions and minds that can be obtained can't outsmart market forces.
2. repeal corporate tax. Individual recipients of dividends are already taxed. Taxation of success is counterproductive.
3. reduce the mortgage income tax deductibility to zero. At the risk if advocating social engineering, this would encourage prospective home owners to buy now.

Sam

(Edited by Sam Erica on 9/29, 3:17pm)

Post 8

Monday, September 29 - 4:50pm

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You want "facts"?

"You know where that very important $700-billion figure came from?

Here's a quote from that Forbes story:

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.

And it worked."

Post 9

Monday, September 29 - 5:59pm

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http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:6:./temp/~c110DMkXw8:e77790:

There are 8 versions of Bill Number H.R.3221 for the 110th Congress

1 . Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2007 (Placed on Calendar in Senate)[H.R.3221.PCS]
2 . Foreclosure Prevention Act of 2008 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by Senate)[H.R.3221.EAS]
3 . American Housing Rescue and Foreclosure Prevention Act of 2008 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by House)[H.R.3221.EAH]
4 . Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by Senate)[H.R.3221.EAS2]
5 . Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)[H.R.3221.ENR]
6 . Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by House)[H.R.3221.EAH2]
7 . New Direction for Energy Independence, National Security, and Consumer Protection Act (Introduced in House)[H.R.3221.IH]
8 . Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2007 (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)[H.R.3221.EH]

#6 seems to be the one everyone is talking about.
The word "billion" appears nowhere in the text.

"SEC. 1111. MINIMUM CAPITAL LEVELS.
Section 1362 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4612) is amended--
(1) in subsection (a), by striking `In General' and inserting `Enterprises'; and
(2) by striking subsection (b) and inserting the following:
`(b) Federal Home Loan Banks- For purposes of this subtitle, the minimum capital level for each Federal Home Loan Bank shall be the minimum capital required to be maintained to comply with the leverage requirement for the bank established under section 6(a)(2) of the Federal Home Loan Bank Act (12 U.S.C. 1426(a)(2))."

The whole thing only runs about five pages. Anyone who cares about the facts should read it... or you could read a conservative blogger from the LA Times...

John Armaos, thanks for the link. Another link on that page goes to a rollcall vote.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 9/29, 6:10pm)

Post 10

Tuesday, September 30 - 6:57am

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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080930/financial_meltdown.html

The Bush administration and Congress seem intent on getting something passed and fairly soon.

I don't understand Barack Obama's proposal to raise from $100,000 to $250,000 the amount of federal deposit insurance for bank accounts. How will that affect the tight credit conditions? Is it only more Obama babble?

I'm glad the Paulson-Bernanke proposal failed, despite the significant drop in stock prices and consequently on my assets. Like I said elsewhere on RoR, I'd prefer convertible preferred stock or preferred stock plus warrants (they are similar) over the government buying mortgage-backed securities.

Relief from the mark-to-market rule might also help, but I don't know how much. Newt Gingrich proposes replacing mark-to-market with a three-year rolling average and says it will "overnight explode the amount of liquidity on the street" here. That makes no sense to me, at least for the more distressed mortgage-backed securities. Their status is changing constantly and rapidly due to defaults, foreclosures and housing prices.

Post 11

Tuesday, September 30 - 10:21am

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Just an interesting claim that I've heard on one of my favorite radio shows (FreeTalk Live) is that around 600 billion was pumped into the economy by the Federal Reserve on the day the bail out vote took place. It's scary to imagine that they got their way in a backward manner regardless of the vote. Such an action should have been enough to call for Bernake's head from Congress, but from what I've heard no one is squawking. Being a 'young' adult I have to wonder, wtf are these "old men" thinking when acting in a self-defeating manner such as inflating the currency?

Post 12

Tuesday, September 30 - 10:34am

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Bidonotto cites a more credible source than Kucinich or Paul (in descending order of credibility) to the same effect: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122273029076687929.html?mod=djemEditorialPage Who'd of thought a year ago that we'd be seeing calls for the abolition of central banking?

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:6:./temp/~c110DMkXw8:e77790:

There are 8 versions of Bill Number H.R.3221 for the 110th Congress