About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Saturday, August 2 - 2:00pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/E/thirteen/thirteen1.htm

 

There is a wealth of evidence to suggest that while ideologues such as Thomas Paine were certainly avid supporters of the principles of the Declaration (and Andrew Galambos claimed that he could prove that the Declaration was actually authored - at least primarily - by Paine), other of the "founding fathers" had other agendas.  One item that I have heard frequently is that the British Empire had already essentially outlawed slavery by 1776, in a phased out progression.  Thus, slave owners in the 13 colonies were happy to have their own quiet ambitions furthered, regardless of some silly claptrap about inalienable rights.

 

Additionally, many Tories had their property seized by the revolutionaries, regardless of whether they actively participated in any anti-revolutionary acts, and many were forced to flee to Canada or other parts of the Empire.  Getting rich quick from seizing some one else's property - especially that of a hated minority - has long trumped notions of human rights.

 

More importantly, however, it has been claimed that at the end of the revolution, and, perhaps, one of the driving forces behind it from the start, was the repudiation of enormous debts to British banks and other investors, debts that had financed the colonization from the beginning.  I would suggest that possibly yet another economic incentive was the freeing up of patents.  I recall that there was a huge clampdown on use of patented industrial technology by the British mercantilists against colonists.  The revolution had the impact of putting an enormous amount of intellectual property developed in Britain into the U.S. public domain.  (~"The property is there.  Who cares who created it?"  - anyone recall the exact quote from AS?)

 

The gist of the missing 13th Amendment debate is roughly that the British banks had schemed from the end of the revolution to recover the stolen debt assets, and had managed to slip in various measures via their U.S. lobbyists that opened the door to such claims.  Among these measures was a weakening of constitutional provisions against a U.S. gentry, as in the "Esquire" that attorneys often append to their names.  Note that these measures were successful enough that judges throughout the U.S. today - as far as I know - are required to be members of the Bar, which is a private organization which sets its own rules and limits membership to those who tow its ideological line via Bar exams.  Talk about fascism.

 

The missing 13th, which allegedly overturned the alleged behind the scenes British plotting,  was about to be recognized in Washington, apparently, as it appears that the number of states required for ratification had been achieved.  Some researchers speculate that this was the primary reason for the War of 1812 and especially the successful march on Washington and its burning by the British army, which destroyed all the Washington based records of the 13th's passage. 

 

My point?  The U.S. from the start leaned strongly in the direction of mercantilism, with special tariff and import duty privileges (literally "private laws") fueling the creation of a new class of gentry.  Of course, in any such scheme there are victims.  Ironically, the primary victims of the Northern mercantilists were the very Southern cotton growers who had benefitted from getting out from under the Empire and keeping their slaves, but who were now being destroyed economically by the tariff structure, which forced them to sell at drastically reduced rate to the Northern textile interests, instead of the European markets, who were willing to pay a much higher price. 

 

Thus we fought one of the bloodiest wars in history to protect our own landed gentry from free market competition.  The Declaration, meanwhile, is a pretty piece of paper.

 




Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Wednesday, August 6 - 3:15amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
So, I am instructed that  "The Declaration, meanwhile, is a pretty piece of paper."  Well, the post in which this inspiring conclusion is being offered may be a pretty piece of typing.  The important issue, contrary to what that post suggests, is whether what the Declaration states is true--do human beings have the rights, among others, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Is the proper justification of government "to secure [these] rights"? So far as I can ascertain--having studied the matter for nearly 50 years of my life (with some of the results presented in Individuals and Their Rights [1989])--the answer is "yes" to both questions. 
          There are many other interesting issues associated with the Declaration but the most important is whether what it states (above) is true and on that score it is a superb piece of writing, never mind the paper on which it was written. 

(Edited by Machan on 8/06, 3:17am)




Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Wednesday, August 6 - 5:32amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I find the cheap, revisionist history attacks on many of the founding fathers to be repulsive. The implication from the lead paragraphs in Phil Osborn's message is that they acted merely to serve petty, dishonest agendas.

Phil Osborn refers to Paine an ideologue and says, "...other of the 'founding fathers' had other agendas. One item that I have heard frequently is that the British Empire had already essentially outlawed slavery by 1776, in a phased out progression. Thus, slave owners in the 13 colonies were happy to have their own quiet ambitions furthered, regardless of some silly claptrap about inalienable rights."

So the claim is made that the founding fathers were in it for some bucks that they could get by confiscating property of others, so they could keep slaves, avoid paying royalties on patents, skip out on debt owed to British concerns, etc.

There is no doubt that some individuals behaved then, as do some now, with unethical agendas and that even some of the early laws in this country were contrary to Individual rights. But what that kind of yellow journalism of history does, and does by intention, is to tar the good by finding the exceptions to what was a truly great turn in history for freedom. And by throwing mud on the good names, they hope to diminish the principles that were being put forth for the very first time. And all of it done in the cowardly fashion of those who don't attack an idea from the front.

Take a quick look at "ideologue" Thomas Paine:

He left England fairly late in his life, at 37, to emigrate to America and to join in the revolution. More than a mere "Ideologue" he was the author of several books as well as the pamphlets, articles and papers that fueled our revolution. He was an intellectual, fiercely focused on bringing freedom into being, and he put his life on the line doing so. After the American revolution he went to France where he was so honored for his contribution to their revolution that he was made a citizen of France and appointed to the National Committee even though he spoke no French. He spoke out and wrote such fierce attacks on the enemies of liberty, that he knew he would most likely be arrested and executed. Paine quickly penned the first half of The Age of Reason, an assault on organized 'revealed' religion, so as to have it done before they could execute him. It was only a fluke that let him escape the French prison.

Mr. Osborne states that Paine was really the author of the Declaration of Independence - and not Jefferson. Another example of historical revisionism run wild. The Committee of Five; Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, Robert Livingston, and Roger Sherman took up the task of drafting a declaration. We know Jefferson wrote the first draft and anyone who has spent much time reading his letters will recognize the style and phrasing as his, not Paine's. Look at the Constitution of Virginia that he authored before this. Look at the principles of Locke's that Jefferson gave words to in many of his writings.

From Wikipedia: " His [Jefferson's] epitaph, written by him with an insistence that only his words and 'not a word more' be inscribed, reads:

HERE WAS BURIED THOMAS JEFFERSON
AUTHOR OF THE DECLARATION OF AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE
OF THE STATUTE OF VIRGINIA FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
AND FATHER OF THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA

As far back as early 1774 we can see writings of his declaring that British Parliament's jurisdiction did not rightfully extend to the American colonies - this is while Paine was still in England.



Post 3

Thursday, August 7 - 4:24amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Ditto!




Post to this thread
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.