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Post 0

Wednesday, April 30 - 10:06amSanction this postReply
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Good one Machan.

This reminded me of a conversation I keep having with new girls I meet. It goes something like this:

Girl: so do you pay attention to politics?
Me: sure.
Girl: Bush blah blah blah. But I think Obama blah blah blah. What do you think?
Me: I don't really pay attention to politics like that.
Girl: don't you care about what is going on?
Me: very much so, but I'm not sure that caring about who is in the White House will change our situation very much.
Girl: well Bush is blah blah blah. And McCain said blah blah blah.

It goes on like this until I feel it necessary to change the subject or be forced to send this chick on her way.

Here is a question for you Machan: do you think that the concern with popular politics is a form of intellectual laziness?



Post 1

Wednesday, April 30 - 10:22amSanction this postReply
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Tibor:

I don't think that whomever is elected will end up doing much for most of your problems - except for the temperature in your canyon. Why, despite all their hot air, the politicians can already take credit for having stabilized the earth's temperature. And when we outlaw carbon use, we just might be able to kick ourselves back into an ice age. That ought to make working around your home a much more comfortable experience. Oh, and don't forget to vote! :-)

Regards,
--
Jeff



Post 2

Wednesday, April 30 - 5:05pmSanction this postReply
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As to whether I "think that the concern with popular politics is a form of intellectual laziness," it depends on whose concern it is.  Some folks are genuinely concerned so as to have some remedial influence, however much or little.  Some are being prudent, defensive, because someone's election could seriously harm them.  Others are simply having fun.  No one size fits here, as in most other places.




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Post 3

Thursday, May 1 - 6:18amSanction this postReply
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Obama:   "The American people, what they are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems."
Every time a politician "solves" a problem, I lose freedom, money or both.  I'd much rather they left me to deal with my own problems, and turn their attention toward more productive endeavours.

Like playing Solitaire on their 'puters.




Post 4

Thursday, May 1 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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I'd much rather they left me to deal with my own problems, and turn their attention toward more productive endeavours.

 

There is no productiveness with a politician - is all mooching and looting....




Post 5

Thursday, May 1 - 10:40pmSanction this postReply
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This pertains to just one little nook of Tibor's remarks. I agree that the only proper function for government is to protect individual rights. I agree that some parts of our constitution give our US government the function of protecting those rights.

But doesn't the constitution designate more functions for the US government than that one? Aren't the functions of our government stated in the Preamble of the Constitution, which reads
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

(Edited by Stephen Boydstun on 5/01, 10:43pm)




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Post 6

Friday, May 2 - 5:26amSanction this postReply
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But doesn't the constitution designate more functions for the US government than that one? Aren't the functions of our government stated in the Preamble of the Constitution, which reads

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 


No.  The preamble is a mission statement of sorts.  The Supreme Court has referred to the preamble as "evidence of the origin, scope and purpose" of the Constitution in its entirety (Bill of Rights included), but it carries no legal weight. 

From Joseph Story's Commentaries:

§ 462. And, here, we must guard ourselves against an error, which is too often allowed to creep into the discussions upon this subject. The preamble never can be resorted to, to enlarge the powers confided to the general government, or any of its departments. It cannot confer any power per se; it can never amount, by implication, to an enlargement of any power expressly given. It can never be the legitimate source of any implied power, when otherwise withdrawn from the constitution. Its true office is to expound the nature, and extent, and application ofthe powers actually conferred by the constitution, and not substantively to create them. For example, the preamble declares one object to be, " to provide for the common defence." No one can doubt, that this does not enlarge the powers of congress to pass any measures, which they may deem useful for the common defence.1 But suppose the terms of a given power admit of two constructions, the one more restrictive, the other more liberal, and each of them is consistent with the words, but is, and ought to be, governed by the intent of the power; if one would promote, and the other defeat the common defence, ought not the former, upon the soundest principles of interpretation to be adopted? Are we at liberty, upon any principles of reason, or common sense, to adopt a restrictive meaning, which will defeat an avowed object of the constitution, when another equally natural and more appropriate to the object is before us? Would not this be to destroy an instrument by a measure of its words, which that instrument itself repudiates?

Contrary to popular (uneducated) opinion, the Constitution is very specific in its description of -- and conferment of power to -- the federal government.  And it is just as specific in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments where it recognizes that all powers not specifically given to the fed belong to the states and to the people, and forbids the fed from using the rights enumerated in the Constitution to "to deny or disparage others retained by the peopled".
 
 




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Post 7

Friday, May 2 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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To promote the general welfare, the Founders and Framers believed the unalienable rights of citizens need to be secured.  It is through private, not government, action that the general welfare is to be achieved, and government can promote this only by one means: competent protection of everyone's rights.  (It's a bit like how referees promote the game!)



Post 8

Friday, May 2 - 9:51amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Summer and Tibor!



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Post 9

Friday, May 2 - 3:22pmSanction this postReply
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What a dead-on reply, Tibor!

Integrating other things the Founding Fathers wrote forces the issue -- when they wrote "General Welfare" they meant "Objective Justice." You can't read it a different way without contradiction.

Ed



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