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Post 0

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 8:14amSanction this postReply
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That's true. The nations that are dedicated to peace should start by throwing the United States of America out of the United Nations.




Post 1

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 8:41amSanction this postReply
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Andre, I enjoyed this fiery tirade and sanctioned it.  Perhaps a future article can examine in greater detail the concrete offenses of the United Nations from its pinko "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" to its coddling of murderous dictatorships.

Chris, I sometimes have one hell of a hard time understanding your position regarding the moral status of the United States.  Your snide comments do not paint a full picture for us.  Since you have submitted no formal articles yet here, perhaps that would make an excellent first submission.  As for the UN giving the US the boot, I do not see that as bad for the US at all.




Post 2

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:15amSanction this postReply
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I would love to see the UN and the USA part ways. I would love to see the UN die.

This is just a new way to frame the campaign. The "Get out of the UN" campaign hasn't worked. People like the John Birch Society have been saying that for 60 years.

The new campaign would be: "The UN should expel rogue states. They should expel the USA." We can work the unpopularity of the US currently. Many around the world would probably embrace such a campaign.

This is a way to attack and weaken the UN without appearing to attack it. It's sort of like how people say that anti-trust laws are there to "protect the free market."

As far as the "moral status" of the USA, I think it's pretty immoral right now. Papers like the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution can do nothing. For those things to have any force, people have to care about them.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 9/27, 10:16am)




Post 3

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 7:26pmSanction this postReply
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Good article.

Yes, the UN was formed to prevent wars above all else and I think as a result humanity has grossly suffered. Maybe there should be a United Free Nations which only consists of liberal democracies. As I wrote in my World Peace article, the only truth path to long term and sustainable peace is the democratization of the world.



Post 4

Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 7:39amSanction this postReply
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Democracy is the solution for world peace--are you kidding?




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Post 5

Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 10:51pmSanction this postReply
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The sad fact is that war is exactly what is needed right now. We better wake up and smell the coffee. We must destroy North Korea and Iran's military. We must fight militant Islam. The premise of the UN is peace at any price. They hate us and we should hate them twice as much. What a collection of evil nations! And they had the nerve to ask us to disarm our population a few years ago. Let the UN move to a third world nation where their evil delegates can avoid our capitalist decadence like Broadway, theater, and our host of fabulous hotels restaurants. The money they spend here has blood on it and we can do without it.  

Like the bumper sticker says: US out of the UN, and UN out of the US.  

(Edited by Marty Lewinter on 9/28, 10:52pm)




Post 6

Friday, September 29, 2006 - 7:21amSanction this postReply
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Marty,

I hear the military is getting pretty desperate. Have you talked to a recruiter lately?




Post 7

Friday, September 29, 2006 - 8:46amSanction this postReply
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My thanks to Luke, Jeff, and Marty.

There's definitely more to explain -- including just in theory -- about how and why the UN coddles dictators, and what the horrific short- and long-term results have been. Initially, I think, the West sought to create a really fine and idealistic club, somewhat modeled upon itself, and then invited in select dictatorships in order to teach/influence them via contagion, but also shame them into better behavior. This possibly seemed plausible at the time, but all it did was encourage and reward their domestic and foreign political evil -- partially via Rand's deftly explained "sanction of the victim." 

The point about only tyrannies causing war is all-important. Neo-con theorist Natan Sharansky likes to say that the dictatorship that loves you (e.g. Saudi Arabia) is far more dangerous than the democracy that hates you (e.g. France).

We do need to wage some real war here in our absurdist War on Islam, in my view, but as classicist and ARIan John Lewis recently emphasized in his New York lecture, what we mostly need to do is smash and crush their governments (verbs, mine ;-) ) -- not their general populations. Prof. Lewis claims Iran can be overthrown by air power and missiles alone, with a total loss of American life: zero. Inveterate trouble-maker that I am, I also asked Lewis about nuclear-armed Pakistan but unfortunately got no good answer other than, basically, make a real example of Iran. To top it off, I even asked about North Korea. But unfortunately no good answer. (His lecture focused almost entirely on Iraq and the analogy with WWII and Japan.)   




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Post 8

Friday, September 29, 2006 - 8:57amSanction this postReply
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Prof. Lewis claims Iran can be overthrown by air power and missiles alone, with a total loss of American life
And just what are his credentials for making this assertion? How much actual military duty has he done? What does some college professor know about this stuff? Your case would have much more credibility if someone like Colin Powell and Norman Schwarzkopf said it.
To top it off, I even asked about North Korea. But unfortunately no good answer.
I am beginning to think that the best solution to North Korea is to pull all our troops out of there. Then, the South could just overrun the North. I don't think the North could defend themselves for long since they are so terribly bankrupt, just like another basket case 100 miles south of Florida.
The point about only tyrannies causing war is all-important.  
It depends somewhat on your defintion of tyranny. Democracy certainly doesn't prevent war. Technically, the Third Reich was still a democracy as Hitler came to power by totally legal means.

What happens is that many democracies evolve into what I call a post-democratic system. A democracy creates a tragedy of the commons in which everyone wants to waste everyone else's money. There is also the problem of concentrated benefits and dispersed costs. This leads to government not by majorities, but by well-organized minorities. Corruption and contradiction  become the norm. There is no incentive to spend less or tax less, therefore taxation and irresponsible spending grow and grow.

Eventually, the people become weary of these inefficiencies and cry that the government can't get anything done. They begin to clamor for a "leader"--a decisive and determined person who will make things more efficient. They want a can-do man who will "get things done." This is in spite of the fact that inefficiency is basically enshrined into the system. Thus, power falls into the hands of a duce or a fuhrer. Then Acton's law also comes into play: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolutely power corrupts absolutely."

Like many political ideas, democracy in reality is quite different from democracy in theory. Of course, democracy is also two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for breakfast.

I'm not sure where we are right now. Is America a post-democratic system yet?

(Edited by Chris Baker on 9/29, 9:13am)




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Post 9

Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 3:32pmSanction this postReply
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"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other forms that have been tried."
- Winston Churchill



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